appyface
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Posts posted by appyface
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I don't use Firefox, so... no I haven't.
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LOL I bought a little ASUS Eee PC 10" Linux netbook in November. I'm familar with many flavors of Linux, but not the one that came on it -- Xandros.
If I didn't know it wasn't windows (or if I didn't do a directory listing, or other command that gives it away) I would have said it was Windows XP.
Xandros is reported to be "the best linux desktop for Windows users". And I can believe it, it even hangs once in awhile just like XP :-)
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The website ("GUI" if you will) can be a little buggy and some buttons don't work but look like they should. Also, some of the features are not intuitive (to me). If you have any questions please let me know, I can probably answer them.
I have had very few problems over the years. Unlike "speedy-Flo"
the WatchThatPage guys are slow to respond to tech support and questions, but they DO eventually respond.The service has been a very good value overall for me. YMMV of course!
Best,
--appyface
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I know, I did the same thing. Even so, I can't imagine what window size/placement errors would have to do with the program terminating on an update attempt?
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I am a supporter and send WatchThatPage a modest fee each year in exchange for making me a 'priority user' and handling about 3000 webpages for me :-) Most other services charge an arm and a leg for that many pages but these guys have never batted an eye.
It's free, sign up and have a look around? I have never been spammed at the email address I gave them (they are the only ones that have it) so I believe they do not sell addresses, etc. I have used them for what, must be 6 or 7 years now I think, maybe more.
I don't think there is any way to mass-upload, but I haven't needed to do that so I haven't looked for it. I was using another service that went defunct, that's how I switched to WatchThatPage. At the time I used a screen macro utility to 'type' my webpages into WatchThatPage, so it wasn't a hardship on me. At that time I had about 800 entries.
I saw mention of "Webmon" here, as another similar service, but I am not familiar with that one.
Best,
--appyface
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@CybTekSol
Well that was fast. I renamed my original Ketarin folder to get it out of the way, then renamed the copied folder (which was working) to the original folder name. Ketarin run from the original foldername will not update and disappears without error message. There is no process left behind that I can see (using Task Manager).
I changed the name of the folder slightly, and Ketarin is updating again.
This is very strange. Ketarin in that same folder name was working fine earlier today. AFAIK there have not been any changes to my system except pulling the new 0.9.9.22 Ketarin beta. But that was the one that was working earlier!
Maybe Flo can find out what is causing Ketarin to terminate without error message. At least I can recreate it, if I keep the same name.
@emil.sekula - try renaming the folder that Ketarin is in. And possibly copy your jobs.db file into that folder. See if that fixes it for you?
--appyface
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@CybTekSol
I have already posted the window size and placement is solved. Ketarin will not update now, and the process terminates unexpectedly and without warning or error message. There is no message in the event logs.
However, I'm not one to turn down a suggestion :-) But before doing that, I rebooted my machine first, and tried Ketarin in it's 'regular' location one more time. The window size is still solved, and I could do an export of all my settings (they look good), but Ketarin would not update, as soon as I click 'update now' or highlight one entry and press 'CTRL-U' the process terminates without error message.
So I copied the Ketarin folder to another folder (I have my jobs.db in the same folder with Ketarin, which makes trying new versions or making copies very easy and independent of each other). Then I launched it. The window size is still good. And yes, the copy of Ketarin will update!
I can't imagine what Windows is hanging on to, that would be causing the other copy of Ketarin to go down without warning. Maybe Flo can find out.
Thanks for the tip of copying the folder. I'll experiment with putting the working folder back to the original location.
Best regards,
--appyface
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It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to implement, but then again I don't really know that for sure :-)
In any event, you are correct, the feature is only as good as the person who is using it, makes it. I certainly wouldn't make it a required feature!
What I really want is to be alerted to the possibility that my Ketarin entry is not up-to-date. For me the number of days is not really useful for that. I can already see the last updated date on the display and know how long it has been since a download was made, so I can manually go inspect any of these entries. I'd like to avoid manually inspecting entries just because they might be out-of-date. But if there was some independent monitoring source that could clue me in, Ketarin could watch that too and let me know.
Me, I'd rather continue using WatchThatPage to let me know when something may need my attention in Ketarin, than be in the position of manually inspecting all my Ketarin entries that haven't been updated for awhile. I just thought it would be nice if Ketarin could take over that one function.
Thanks and regards,
--appyface
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OK double-weird. So now I have the window (very tiny but visible), I used double-headed arrow to resize, the clicked 'updated now' button. Ketarin vanished without a trace. No entry in the event logs, not still running as a process listed in Task Manager.
I launched Ketarin again and it has no window unless maximized. I followed the above procedure again to show the tiny window, then exited Ketarin. I relaunched Ketarin and resized the tiny window to my normal size. Then exited Ketarin again.
I launched Ketarin yet again and it came up in my correctly sized window. I clicked 'update now' button and Ketarin again disappeared without a trace.
One more time. I launched Ketarin and this time it showed with the correctly sized window. However, clicking 'update now' button results again in Ketarin disappearing. So does selecting one entry and pressing CTRL-U -- Ketarin disappears.
Help?
--appyface
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Eureka! This worked for me!
http://csharpaspnet.blogspot.com/2007/08/window-restore-down-goes-hidden.html
But it doesn't explain why Ketarin's window suddenly went off/screen or zero size or whatever it was that happened...
--appyface
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This is too funny. I believe the same thing that happened to emil.sekula just happened to me!
I had used Ketarin 0.9.9.22 beta earlier today with no problems. Just now, I launched Ketarin but all that shows is a taskbar button, there is no visible window? I have minimized and/or closed every open window, and I clicked on the Ketarin taskbar button, it depresses as if Ketarin is the window with the focus, but I can see no window at all...
I can right-click the taskbar button and choose maximize, and then I have the Ketarin window fully maximized like emil.sekula has reported.
If I click on 'restore' (the two overlapping squares on middle button in upper right corner), the Ketarin window disappears to just a taskbar button again. Once 'restored' I do have 'move' and 'size' options available on the right-click menu of the taskbar button. But alas I can find no window to apply them to!
So my advice to emil.sekula probably won't work, since I tried that myself and it didn't work.
Any ideas how to get the Ketarin window to show itself again without being maximized?
Thanks and regards,
--appyface
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Yes of course, Ketarin can only download (or not) as per the application's instructions. I must modify my entry in Ketarin to pick up the new download.
My point is I'd like Ketarin to be the one to warn me that I MAY need to modify my Ketarin entry so I will get the new file.
Otherwise I would not find out this situation very quickly, unless I use a page monitoring service, or frequently visit all my websites and manually verify whether my Ketarin entry is still retrieving the newest files.
My proposal was just one possible way Ketarin could be made to warn me I need to investigate. I suggested a special monitoring variable.
Ketarin would save the contents of this special variable from the last update request, and then compare it to the contents that are retrieved during this update request. I am only interested in the change in status, and not the actual contents: Did the variable's contents change since last time? Or does it have the same contents as last time? Did the scrape error out this time?
Then compare this status (changed, unchanged, error) to the same type of status of the actual downloaded file (downloaded = changed, did not download = no change).
If there is a mismatch in the two statuses, Ketarin should warn me so I can investigate further.
Of course it is not foolproof, the accuracy of the warning is only as good as the monitoring variable content I choose to scrape.
But it would keep me from having to rely on 3rd party page monitoring service for possible changes I need to make to Ketarin's entry.
I hope what I mean is clearer now? Please let me know. Thanks and regards,
--appyface
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Like many people here, I use an independent page-watching service (for me it's www.watchthatpage.com) to notify me of new programs from an author I like, updates to programs I currently use, etc.
Of course Ketarin is not meant to replace such a service in all things. But in going through my recent WatchThatPage notifications, I am seeing more and more where I am not getting an update through Ketarin that I intended to get.
So I was just thinking, maybe Ketarin can help me with this situation?
It's not any failure on Ketarin's part, of course. Sometimes it is just a matter of tuning a poorly written regex or variable scrape. But sometimes it just isn't possible to create an entry that is neither too generic nor too restrictive. Sooner or later that entry may simply continue to locate an old build, without error.
This is what I am seeing. My entry in Ketarin is working correctly, but because of the way I defined it, it just continues to locate the old build and report there is no update. The 'rules' on the webpage have changed, and I need to change Ketarin's entry to adapt to that. But how to know, if Ketarin is not having an error?
So... still thinking out loud... here's one idea how Ketarin could help:
1. Create a variable in the application the same way as we can do now -- scraping a webpage or concatenating other variables etc. But this variable will be somehow be designated as a special monitoring variable.
2. When asked to update an application, Ketarin compares the status of the monitor variable's contents (change, no change, error) with the status of the actual download result (change, no change. Error is separate reporting matter already). The idea being if a mismatch in the two statuses occurs, Ketarin would raise alert.
Of course there can be lots of reasons for the mismatch, including my poor choice of a monitoring variable, but at least Ketarin would tell me something's up based on my two 'independent' indicators.
Thoughts?
Thanks and regards,
--appyface
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Well I guess it depends on what someone thinks the current icons represent...
If by "not fit the current updating process", you mean that some applications are not IN the current updating process, therefore the visual icon status must be non-committal? Then yes how the icons are being reset does show that.
I guess I look at the icon to be an indicator of what Ketarin found, the last time Ketarin was asked to update the application. Given that viewpoint, the icon shouldn't change if Ketarin is not currently being asked to update that particular application.
Hmmm... maybe a separate column with Ketarin's last update-checking status (updated, error, no change) would allow Ketarin to serve both viewpoints? Then icons could be left as they are now.
I know there are other ways to get this information, but I do like the visual. :-)
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My Ketarin settings are for 5 threads and 2 retries, which works very well overall for my needs.
However, I do have a few sites balk when multiple file downloads are attempted from the site, or multiple threads are attempted on a single download. While this is not Ketarin's fault per se, they do return error after a mass "update now" run because the thread settings are global.
Would it be possible to override Ketarin's threads and retry settings on a per-application basis? I would also need a way to tell Ketarin the application has an "exclusive mode" and to NOT run any other downloads simultaneously with it.
Ideally the "exclusive mode" would apply only to preventing other simultaneous downloads from the same site, and Ketarin could happily continue downloading of other applications. But for my purposes, if the 'exclusive mode' prevented downloading of any other applications simultaneously, that would be more than adequate.
Thoughts?
Thanks and regards,
--appyface
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Hi Flo,
I think this has been discussed before but I can't find it now... apologies...
I launch Ketarin and click 'update now' button. After Ketarin has finished, all icons have changed to either gold sunburst (updated), green check (no change), or red X (error).
I do always have quite a few with error status that have to be updated by hand. After acknowledging the error pop-up window, I click on one or more of the applications with an error, and press CTRL-U to try to update them again. But as soon as I press CTRL-U, all the other icons on the display will reset to their default icons.
Is it possible to have Ketarin retain whatever the last displayed icon is, changing it only if the entry is being updated?
For me it would be good enough to honor this until I close Ketarin. But maybe it would be nice to store in the database and retain across Ketarin sessions, too.
Possible? Thoughts?
Thanks and regards,
--appyface
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For me, if I am having trouble with a regex I copy the HTML out of Ketarin's window and into RegexBuddy, and also my regex-in-progress.
I find it easier to just go use RegexBuddy (or other regex development tool like Expresso), as there are a lot of features in those programs to help with the task.
Still, I agree if Ketarin had the additional features mentioned here, it might keep the regex work within Ketarin more often.
My $0.02 USD.
--appyface
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@emil.sekula
Not sure what is going on but please try this? You must be administrator of PC. Are you using XP, Vista, or ? The below steps usually work on XP. I don't have access to a Vista machine so don't know about that one. I don't know if it will help but it will not hurt anything.
Follow all steps exactly and do not do anything inbetween the steps.
1. Close ALL running programs (check systray and also task manager and close anything you know did not come with windows). Should have bare desktop now and no systray icons (except clock :-) and no taskbar buttons. No hidden processes running other than normal windows processes.
2. Launch Ketarin. It is maximized? (middle button of three in upper right corner shows two overlapping squares)
3. Close Ketarin using 'X' in upper right corner.
4. Shutdown and reboot your system.
5. Let windows come up normally.
6. Launch Ketarin. It is maximized? Click on the two overlapping squares. Is it now one square? If it is now one square can you get double-headed arrow on sides and top or diagonal arrow at the corners? If so you can resize window by getting double-headed arrow and click and drag. (Note: If it has one square but the window is filling the screen, it is sometimes hard to get the double-headed arrow. Click the title bar of the window and drag downward and to the right -- or to the left -- this exposes the top and corner and is much easier to get the resizing arrow.)
7. Use system as normal.
I hope this helps.
--appyface
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Yes I actually do use a prefix thingy already. But that's a workaround. It's not a sin, but it would be nice to have a column indicating that status, I just think it looks better visually. Personal preference obviously :-) Thanks,
--appyface
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Yes I actually do a prefix thingy already to help with the sort. But I'll take your comment "- for the time being -" that it makes the post 1.0 list. How far "post", remains to be seen
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When I want to add a new app to Ketarin but don't have time to set it up, I put the name in as a placeholder (and a few other dummy things to pass Ketarin's edits) and disable it. Then it won't be forgotten, I can come back later when I have time to finish setting it up.
So I'd like to be able to sort my disabled apps together on the GUI? I know they're greyed out visually but it would be handy to bring them together when I have time to edit some of them.
Probably not much in the WOW factor department that Flo is looking for right now... but I hope it makes *some* list.
Thanks and regards,
--appyface
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@FranciscoR
I agree it is really handy to be able to drag a corner of dialog boxes and resize them. Like can be done with the variables definition pane in Ketarin, or the pop-up download errors window.
But I also appreciate Flo's position that boxes without scrollbars are not nice! I often use my Asus Eee PC 1000, a little 10" netbook with a maximum screen resolution of 1024x600 (OK it can do 1024x768 but the display itself has to be scrolled to reach the bottom of it).
I can't tell you how many times I encounter software with tall dialog boxes and no scrollbars, that require at least 768 depth (often more). I can't see the bottom half of the dialog boxes and can't reach the "OK" or "Cancel" buttons, I have to enable a 'move' command and reposition the top half of the dialog off the display first. VERY frustrating, scrollbars would be soooo friendly.
Best regards,
--appyface
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P.S. Thank you for putting in my wish to have Export ALL as a separate menu choice!!!! That is really really helpful :-)
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Yes.
However, I just tested a bit more and it is inconsistent, sometimes it honors the variable without braces and sometimes not. So I think this may be tied in with another another issue I'm experiencing. I'll do some more testing.
Thanks!
--appyface
"Independent" update verification?
in Feature requests
Posted
LOL I have a similar design process flowchart in my office! Good one, Flo
Well, since I've already fixed all my examples :-) I'll have to see what I can dredge up for you, it may take me some time.
In the meantime, how about some more detail to explain the detail? :-p
Imagine this scenario:
1. You don't use a page watching service
2. You have Ketarin happily checking on, let's say 500+, applications for you so you don't have to bother to check on them manually yourself. You know that Ketarin will get you the new file whenever it shows up, right? So you can spend your time doing other things than looking for new setup packages
3. The authors of one or more of these programs puts out a new version of the program. However, the authors decide to make the new version have a completely new URL. Or maybe they put the new version number and information on a new webpage. Or maybe they put the URL in a different place on the same webpage where Ketarin is scraping it's URL from, or maybe the author did something else that Ketarin is not watching for....
Ketarin is very flexible, and can handle any of the above situations and more with ease. Unfortunately Ketarin can't know what it doesn't know!
Let's say that the author made a new download URL for the new version, but Ketarin entry still looks at the old version's URL. The author has not removed the old URL, so it does not give an error.
Ketarin happily continues checking the old URL and reports "no update". That's not what we wanted, but it's not Ketarin's fault that it doesn't know anything about the new URL.
That's just one example.
In the little scenario above, I paint the picture that just like Ketarin, WE can't know what we can't know, either. Ketarin is not telling us about a new file because it can't. We could not predict the future either, in order to code Ketarin's entry to always find the file we would want. We did the best we could when we setup the Ketarin entry, but the webpage author changed the rules on us and didn't tell us!
So. In the scenario above we do not manually visit all these 500+ websites ourselves, we don't use a page watching service, in short we don't use any "INDEPENDENT" process that can corroborate/deny Ketarin is still doing the job we intended. That means we don't know when Ketarin is NOT doing the job we wanted and we're missing out.
I use the WatchThatPage service for quite a few reasons, but probably 60% of the pages I watch is just for alerting me to the possibility of a new setup package to download.
For example, many authors put all their change information in one place on their site, regardless of how they might change their download URLs etc., Ketarin could help me corroborate/deny that its entry is doing what I intended, by also monitoring whether the contents of that one place has been updated, but a new setup package was not downloaded.
That alert from Ketarin MIGHT mean I need to update Ketarin's entry. Or it might be a false alarm. I'm OK with that, it must be entirely on me to choose wisely what is to be independently monitored. Same as it is entirely on me to construct Ketarin's entry so it works. Assuming no 'bug', it is not Ketarin's fault if the entry doesn't work or it downloads the 'wrong' file... the file 'wrong' only to me, Ketarin has no way of knowing that.
If Ketarin were to offer this independent corroboration feature, I still do not expect it to 100% replace a page watching service for this purpose. In the example above, if the author suddenly departs from putting all information on one changelog page, Ketarin is obviously not going to be independently monitoring the right data anymore.
So even though I'd still be using a page monitoring service to watch the home pages, news pages, or some other page on the site where I might expect to get a hint of a new program version, Ketarin could still help me out with quite a bit of it.
It's not a big deal for me to wait for the emails from the page watching service, and then go fix up Ketarin. That's what I've been doing. I just thought if Ketarin could do a simple independent verification for me when I run the update, the nicest thing about having that is I get the notification right then and there from Ketarin, and not from an email a few days later.
I think the confusion factor may very well be 'big' from such a feature, as CybTekSol has hinted. If Ketarin were to get this feature, it should be marked "advanced users only" and a warning that you need to know exactly what you're doing if you rely on this feature...
Flo, did I answer all the ???? you had from my earlier detailed description? Or did I make more ????
--appyface