appyface

Yes it is, but... :) THAT IS NOT THE CHALLENGE!!! :)

Yes! It can still be downloaded. Thanks!

Thanks Flo for adding the exclusive mode option to an app entry!! My update error dialog went from dozens of errors because of multiple threads on the site, to one or two errors that aren't related to that problem... very helpful!!!

Thanks Flo for adding this one, and taking this bit guesswork out of using the log!

@FranciscoR -- thank you, not bad books at all! Especially when you consider the price tag

I realize I can use a template to set up a new app. But since I don't use them (yet)... What I'm thinking of, is being able to control what defaults are offered me in the 'define new app' dialog. Application tab: Default category offered Default file save type (file, folder). If folder, optionally can give folder path Advanced settings: Default for 'always delete previous' (me, I want the default UNchecked! ) Default for 'share this application online' Default for 'do not download simultaneously Default for 'enabled' Commands: Default command for 'before' downloading Default command for 'after' downloading It is really just a nuisance factor to respecify these on every new app added to Ketarin via the 'add new app' dialog. So hardly a show-stopper. But just maybe, this can be on the wish list for a rainy day when Flo has nothing better to do :-)

@CybTekSol No argument with your feature request. I wasn't addressing that part of your post, however My erroneous mention of CTRL-A got this conversation going away from what I was pointing out... I only wanted to address the part of your post about tediously copying one line at a time! Not necessary, you can get the whole error report in one go. That's ALL I was trying to say! Shortcut menu and keyboard shortcuts probably should be added just for consistency with the rest of the app (main window, log file)... And again, no argument with your feature request. Just not what I was (trying) to talk about

No, I *do* mean the error window. OK I got one just now. What I *have* been doing, is to click on the FIRST line to select it, then hold shift key and click on the LAST line, that selects the entire block. Then copy and paste from there. So you can still get them all I have been doing (I guess I just forgot I've been doing it that way!). And you're right, this window could use shortcut menu and keyboard shortcuts just like the log window.

Completely understood that you don't want to add extra code unless it has value... but I think we're still missing some critical information in the logs. I've got the 1.0.2.215 version, so I'm current (?). I've exported my jobs.db, created an empty jobs.db, and reloaded the XML. I've done my first 'update all' run with the brand-new jobs.db and this version. Using 1.0.2.215, I have to disagree that everything Ketarin considers while processing an app, is being logged. Let's take this example: 2/21/2009 8:21:42 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {skimurl} in '{skimurl}' with 'http://allwaysync.com/download/allwaysync-n-go-9-1-9.exe' 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Checking if update is required... 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Update not required 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {vers} in '{vers}' with '9.1.9' What did Ketarin examine, to decide that the update is not required? The log does not give me this information. I save these logs, and export the XML, for future comparison of app behavior. But that is still not enough, not everthing considered is in the XML file either. Taking the above example, the logging could look like this: 2/21/2009 8:21:42 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {skimurl} in '{skimurl}' with 'http://allwaysync.com/download/allwaysync-n-go-9-1-9.exe' 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Checking if update is required... 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: No referrer specified 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: No change indicator variable specified 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Source URL served http://allwaysync.com/download/allwaysync-n-go-9-1-9.exe 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Server file modified: prior xx/xx/xxxx xx:xx:xx xx current xx/xx/xxxx xx:xx:xx xx 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Server file size: prior xxxxxx current xxxxxx 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Server filename: prior xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx current xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (resolve any variables for target disk filename) 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Target disk filename xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Target disk filename exists 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Update not required 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {vers} in '{vers}' with '9.1.9' The above example is incomplete/inaccurate, I did not show the global variables if referenced, the before/after commands executed, etc. that Ketarin is logging. But I hope this simplistic log revision serves to illustrate the concept: To log everything Ketarin examined, everything that changed value during the run, everything Ketarin executed -- in short, everything that Ketarin took into account, or did, as part of processing this app. Please please please consider adding this detail (it can be an option not normal logging, if you like)? At least please put this on the official wishlist for me? Anything less logged and I'm still having to guess or assume based on my current understanding of what *I think* Ketarin is doing... and that can be wrong... TIA

@CybTekSol I almost always have errors too (and wouldn't you know it, I DON'T have an error box ATM) but IIRC you can CTRL-A to select all (or right click and choose select all) and then copy the whole lot out to your text editor.... check and see?

Dang it Flo you snuck in another version while I was sleeping! 1.0.2.215... LOL I've got that one now and will repeat the above exercise, export my XML, create blank db, reload, run the first update run... and we'll go from there...!

@CybTekSol Yes put (http://) ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/ as the referrer for Ketarin to get the latest (beta) version when available @Flo I downloaded Ketarin *manually* and carefully!!!! last night the latest beta version of Ketarin, this came down with a zip filename of 1.0.2 and the EXE has this size and last modified date/time: Ketarin.exe 600,576 2/19/2009 5:55:32 PM So I'm on the latest version (I hope). I exported all XML, got Ketarin to create me an empty jobs.db, and reimported all XML. Immediately ran update on all apps and Ketarin re-downloaded the CIV-controlled apps (just as you said it would). So now I'm in a good position (I think) to more forward. The referrer thing was no doubt a factor in Ketarin's downloading behavior of Ketarin app, and the CIV not working properly was probably a factor in Ketarin's downloading at odd times of the BooZet apps. It would really be helpful to have an option for logging everything Ketarin examines, referrer, CIV before and after, URL before and after, etc. If I had that level of information before I started this thread, I might have been able to zero in on this myself, or at least had more specific questions about Ketarin's behavior. If I can see everything Ketarin considers, step-by-step as it processes an app, I should be able to follow along and find out where the trouble is (referrer is different, CIV is blank, source URL before/after are different, etc.) If you don't want to do this now, would you --please please please-- add this level of detail option to the wishlist? Thanks, --appyface

You are right, there IS a referer... [2/20/2009 2:17:38 PM:908] GET /downloads/Ketarin/Ketarin-1.0.2.zip HTTP/1.0 Host: ketarin.canneverbe.com Cookie: __utma=97417733.328018987388848400.1232933618.1232933618.1232933618.1; __utmz=97417733.1232933618.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none) Referer: http://ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/ User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) Accept: */* Pragma: no-cache Cache-Control: no-cache Connection: close [2/20/2009 2:17:39 PM:111] HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:17:42 GMT Server: Apache/2.2.11 (Linux/SUSE) Last-Modified: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:08:41 GMT ETag: "28a4764-b60a2-463489685f840" Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 745634 Connection: close Content-Type: application/zip Here's a screen shot of my setup of the Orbit entry before downloading: Here's a screen shot of Orbit's records after downloading: Beats me where it is getting the referrer from... how can it have a referrer if I don't give it one in the setup? A question for Orbit folk...

Well I was thinking you'd write the debug log yourself, like most people do :-p

More weirdness. http://ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/Ketarin-1.0.2.zip I just tried using both Ketarin apps (that had been returning different files), plus I just now tried IE, Orbit and Firefox. All of them downloaded this file, here's one of them with attributes: (name, size, modified, created, accessed) Ketarin-1.0.1.197.zip 743,634 2/11/2009 9:39:34 AM 2/20/2009 1:42:02 PM 2/20/2009 1:42:02 PM No referrer (blank) with Ketarin and with Orbit -- I didn't check IE and Firefox but all got same file with same size and modified date. Next I typed the URL directly into a create download dialog in Orbit (instead of clicking on the link, which launches Orbit). This time I got this file downloaded: (name, size, modified, created, accessed) Ketarin-1.0.2.zip 745,634 2/19/2009 7:08:42 AM 2/20/2009 1:45:44 PM 2/20/2009 1:45:44 PM No referrer (it's blank) in Orbit's download dialog for this URL. It seems this inconsistency has nothing to do with Ketarin? But without detailed logging in Ketarin I could not know what is going on, when I get one file downloaded one time, and get a different file downloaded another time. ????

I have no idea what is going on here... between this and the CIV that was supposedly not blank but seemingly stayed blank until the file dates changed... Something weird is going on and I just don't have enough data in both the Ketarin log and the XML exports, to reconstruct just what's happening. Would you please consider adding a logging option to provide some kind of very detailed 'debug level' sort of logging? I'm going to export this XML, let Ketarin create a blank jobs.db for me, then reimport the XML and just start over from here. You mentioned the logic for the CIV is corrected now so that might be the best thing to do. Is a detailed debug log option possible? ... aarrrrrghgghghghg.... Thanks...

Most of the ones here... trying comparing post #11 and post #20. Same source URL, why two different versions downloaded?

Good Morning Flo, hope you slept well. I'm using THIS same source url for BOTH Ketarin entries: http://ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/Ketarin-1.0.2.zip I've added no referrer for either one, no CIV, no 'delete prior'. This EXACT SAME URL returns {url:basefile} of Ketarin-1.0.1.197.zip (and it really *is* that version) for the one app entry, and returns {url:basefile} of Ketarin-1.0.2.zip for the other entry. Why are two different versions of the app downloaded from the same URL? I do understand you have your server set to serve specific files under certain circumstances such as with IE, Firefox etc., but I'm trying to understand why Ketarin does not retrieve the same filename under BOTH app entries, be it the old filename or the new filename. Can you help me understand the difference?

Yes, I *do* like the reAnimator site! Thanks for this!

It certainly is' date=' [/quote'] I'm glad to hear this was useful to you, thank you for letting me know I do have Expresso (and a key), but I already owned and used heavily RegexBuddy (pay-for product by JGSoft) long before I had heard of Expresso. Expresso gets high marks, so I think it must be pretty useful. Regex can do so much more than what I've posted here. The author of RegexBuddy has a very nice tutorial and manual on different flavors of regex, here: http://www.regular-expressions.info/ Just diving in, as you have done, is really the best way to learn IMO. But examples sure don't hurt and the link above will give you some good ones to practice with. Best regards, --appyface

I'm sorry Flo, there is something very wrong here. I cloned the XML from the example that brought me here (Ketarin was downloading from URL for 1.0.1.197 but I changed the URL to the 1.0.2 URL), and I changed the disk location so no ketarin file previously existed. Here's the update log: 2/19/2009 3:00:45 PM: Update started with 1 application(s) 2/19/2009 3:00:47 PM: Ketarin redownload xxxx beta NEW LOC : Checking if update is required... 2/19/2009 3:00:47 PM: Ketarin redownload xxxx beta NEW LOC : Update required, 'D:\Ketarin-1.0.1.197_beta_20090211-093911.zip' does not yet exist 2/19/2009 3:00:51 PM: Ketarin redownload xxxx beta NEW LOC : Replacing {vers} in '{vers}' with '20090211-093911' 2/19/2009 3:00:52 PM: Update finished The log doesn't show the substitutions for {url:basefile}. The output disk filename is: Ketarin-1.0.1.197_beta_20090211-093911.zip And the file version served is indeed 1.0.1.197, not the newer 1.0.2.zip file. So that rules out disk file existing as reason for not getting the 1.0.2 file. XML of this app entry after I issued CTRL-U: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?> <Jobs> <ApplicationJob xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" Guid="ad935bb9-dbb7-4655-84ef-45f24fdf4012"> <DownloadBeta>Default</DownloadBeta> <DownloadDate xsi:nil="true" /> <VariableChangeIndicator /> <CanBeShared>true</CanBeShared> <ShareApplication>false</ShareApplication> <ExclusiveDownload>false</ExclusiveDownload> <HttpReferer /> <Variables> <item> <key> <string>vers</string> </key> <value> <UrlVariable> <VariableType>Textual</VariableType> <Regex /> <TextualContent>{f:yyyy}{f:MM}{f:dd}-{f:HH}{f:mm}{f:dd}</TextualContent> <Name>vers</Name> </UrlVariable> </value> </item> </Variables> <ExecuteCommand /> <ExecutePreCommand /> <Category>000100</Category> <SourceType>FixedUrl</SourceType> <PreviousLocation>D:\Ketarin-1.0.1.197_beta_20090211-093911.zip</PreviousLocation> <DeletePreviousFile>false</DeletePreviousFile> <Enabled>true</Enabled> <FileHippoId /> <LastUpdated>2009-02-19T15:00:51.92225-08:00</LastUpdated> <TargetPath>D:\{url:basefile}_beta_{f:yyyy}{f:MM}{f:dd}-{f:HH}{f:mm}{f:dd}.{url:ext}</TargetPath> <FixedDownloadUrl>http://ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/Ketarin-1.0.2.zip</FixedDownloadUrl> <Name>Ketarin redownload xxxx beta NEW LOC </Name> </ApplicationJob> </Jobs>

Sleep? It's only 2:13pm! Well I'm not wracking my brain, there's nothing to wrack I'm out of ideas why the two app entries would behave differently when using the same source URL. You keep saying you don't see anything wrong with either of them, they are each behaving correctly. Would you please take me point by point, comparing the two XMLs side by side, and tell me what is it, that is directing the two outcomes? One app continues to try to download 1.0.1.197.zip while the other downloads the 1.0.2.zip -- and both start from the same source URL?

Flo, I don't use an IM (hate the things, personally), but I'd be willing to use portable app's Miranda, would that work?

OK then I still don't get why you say my other XML is not supposed to download the 1.0.2.zip but continues to download the 1.0.1.197.zip file. It's the SAME URL... why the two different behaviors?

Nope, I cannot. The state will be saved independently of whether or not there is a difference in contents. OK then I don't know how to approach the recreation of what happened. What I believe happened. Last weekend (I think 2/16/09): 1. I exported all jobs to XML 2. I launched Ketarin with no reference to jobs.db, so it would create empty jobs.db 3. I imported the XML 4. I ran 'update all'. I *think* Boozet Double Driver redownloaded on first attempt though I'm not positive about that 5. I've since run several 'update all' attempts on different days, Boozet Double Driver has not redownloaded again (until today) 6. The variable used for CIV ({vers}) gets same value it's been getting, at least since 2/16. I display the {vers} variable in my custom column so I can see that part. But since I can't examine the previous value of the CIV at each update attempt, I have no idea what prior value {vers} was actually being compared to. It's not logged. 7. Today's download log shows no mention of the CIV, but the server file's dates had changed, so it redownloaded. As far as I know, the current CIV should have been equal to the previous one and the file should NOT have been redownloaded. You've told me the CIV was blank is why the file redownloaded. But I don't know how to verify that so I can recreate it? And you've said the state should be saved independent of the download, so it should not have been blank. Therefore it was not blank, it should have had the same version number and therefore not downloaded. But it did download, after reporting the server's dates have changed. Did Ketarin check the server's file dates FIRST, and did not check the CIV? 8. Another update attempt did log the examination of the CIV and did not download beacuse it had not changed. Did Ketarin only get to the point of checking the CIV because the file server's dates had not changed? I can try recreating this but I don't have access to a test web system where I can control the file server dates. I'll have to arrange for something like that, first. I'll also need a way to see the CIV's prior value on each update attempt. Can you help with that part?