Offline install

[komitaltrade]

I guess how it must to be possible to install offline apps, but i didnt find anywhere any tutorial or example.

 

Can somebody help?

 

P.S. Offline installers should to reside in D partition (C is OS and D i for data), in e.g. SetupFiles folder.

 

For InstallPad it looks like:

 

file:///d:/SetupFiles/iTunesSetup.exe

 

How it should to be for Ketarin?

[shawn]

To use the "install" functionality, installations must be mapped to download application profiles. If you use ketarin as a downloader, this won't be a problem and the paths are all built in...and, if you use a relative path (.\{category}\) instead of an explicit path (d:\setupfiles\), it'll be more portable, too, in case you end up burning them to disk or copying the folder to a USB stick.

 

Alternatively, you could use a generic app profile that just has a series of commands in it (similar to a batch file), but if you're doing this - why not just use a batch file?

[komitaltrade]

...and, if you use a relative path (.\{category}\) instead of an explicit path (d:\setupfiles\), it'll be more portable, too, in case you end up burning them to disk or copying the folder to a USB stick.

 

Yes I end up burning them (copying) to media.

 

But how it (path) should to look exactly?

 

???:\setupfiles\

 

"DVD":\setupfiles\

 

or what?

[shawn]

With the ".\" as the first couple characters. Here's an example "save to file" from my iTunes download:

 

 

The actual path in the "save to file" box is:

.\{category}\{appname:regexreplace:([\s\t\r\n\-\\&\/]+):_}-{version}.{url:ext}

[komitaltrade]

Here's an example "save to file" from my iTunes download:

 

Thanks, thats nice and clear for download files, but here is about the OFFLINE file.

 

Please make same screen-shoot example for iTunes what you already have downloaded and you want to install it OFFLINE.

[shawn]

If you used Ketarin to download it, then NO CHANGES are necessary to install it "offline". You just click the "install" button, select the app to install, and click "install". It will execute the installer (or installation instructions per "installation script" setting) for the installation packages in sequence, based on the path that is used in the "save to" field.

 

If you're not using Ketarin to download it, I don't understand why you'd bother using Ketarin to install it. That, to me, is simply absurd. First and foremost, Ketarin is intended to manage installers that it downloads itself. You can use it for a bunch of other things - but I have yet to see a reason why you'd want to use it as the installation source for applications you copied from another drive, for example.

[komitaltrade]

If you used Ketarin to download it, then NO CHANGES are necessary to install it "offline". You just click the "install" button, select the app to install, and click "install". It will execute the installer (or installation instructions per "installation script" setting) for the installation packages in sequence, based on the path that is used in the "save to" field.

 

So, if I understand well.

 

When user hit the install button Ketarin first goes

 

Check for local file - > file not found so it will download OR file found it will proceed with download instructions.

 

In other words, if I point the "save to folder" and store my exe file in off-line way there, for Ketarin it will not make any change, as Ketarin will just first looking is it the file already in indicated folder (so, it is not important is it downloaded or manually putted there), correct?

 

If you're not using Ketarin to download it, I don't understand why you'd bother using Ketarin to install it. That, to me, is simply absurd. First and foremost, Ketarin is intended to manage installers that it downloads itself. You can use it for a bunch of other things - but I have yet to see a reason why you'd want to use it as the installation source for applications you copied from another drive, for example.

 

I need it for OOBE post installation. I tried that with InstallPad and it works well, but Ketarin looks much more suitable. related to this, I have another question also.

 

I guess how it is possible to triggering just dialog ("Choose Application to Install") without showing main Ketarin dialog.

 

How can I do it?

[shawn]

So, if I understand well. When user hit the install button Ketarin first goes Check for local file - > file not found so it will download OR file found it will proceed with download instructions. In other words, if I point the "save to folder" and store my exe file in off-line way there, for Ketarin it will not make any change, as Ketarin will just first looking is it the file already in indicated folder (so, it is not important is it downloaded or manually putted there), correct? I need it for OOBE post installation. I tried that with InstallPad and it works well, but Ketarin looks much more suitable. related to this, I have another question also. I guess how it is possible to triggering just dialog ("Choose Application to Install") without showing main Ketarin dialog. How can I do it?

 

Ketarin stores a copy of the filename and path from the last download. This trumps your idea of just copying a file named iTunesSetup.exe into the same folder, as it's more than just the location that matters.

 

If you select an item that has been updated from the Ketarin applications list, and just use CTRL+C you can paste the application profile into notepad++ or something to see what associated data has been modified. Notably, previous location, last updated, last file size, and last file date. This all matters.

 

You could script a few changes to the database to effect this behavior, though. The jobs.db file is a sqlite database, so you could use something like sqlite3.exe to automate the process of inserting this information into the tables, even if you haven't actually run the Ketarin updater.

 

 

As far as triggering the installation window - that currently isn't possible.

[komitaltrade]

Ketarin stores a copy of the filename and path from the last download. This trumps your idea of just copying a file named iTunesSetup.exe into the same folder, as it's more than just the location that matters.

 

OK, clear, but is it mean how once downloaded exe file is offline portable?

 

e.g. - I can choose option To File and path to USB stick, than it should be portable and offline installable for more PCs, correct?

 

As far as triggering the installation window - that currently isn't possible.

 

OK (thats bad news), can you work on it, as it will defenatelly incease popularity of Ketarin, as technicals will be able to add it to SetupComplete.cmd for final clients ("geeks") to let them to make the choice of applications to install?

 

I beleive, how separating main (settings) dialog from install dialog will bring you lot of donations (as than you will be asked for install dialog customizations/brandings, also).

[shawn]

If you place the jobs.db file in the same folder as ketarin.exe, it's truly portable. It does NOT rely on any paths to function. If you use relative paths (".\...") for your save to location, then the entire folder Ketarin resides in can be copied between devices, drives and operating systems without issue. This is how I personally use it, along with a batch file I use to clone the Ketarin folder to a USB stick.

 

As far the install behavior, you CAN get it to install specific applications from the command line, but you have to export the app profiles you want to install to XML first. I haven't personally done this or ever needed to, but it doesn't look that difficult. To generate the XML for only a select few applications you'd open Ketarin, CTRL+click to select multiple entries, then CTRL+C to copy their data as XML. Paste that into Notepad++ (or equivalent), save it to the ketarin folder, copy the Ketarin folder & downloads to your USB stick and then use the following syntax to 'install' them on a different PC:

ketarin.exe /install=myInstallationStuff.xml /exit

 

 

Below you'll find the batch file I use to clone my Ketarin folder to a USB stick (easily modified to push to a network location), "Push2GS.bat":

@ECHO Off
SET TARGET=%1
IF "%TARGET%"=="" SET TARGET=G:\Support
REM IF "%TARGET%"=="" SET TARGET=W:\USB-Key\Support
REM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ECHO Obtaining new and updated files
robocopy "." "%TARGET%" /MIR /BYTES /ETA
SET TARGET=

 

This allows you to clone the Ketarin folder to "G:\Support\" by default, ERASING anything that isn't already in the source folder. You can change the target either directly within the source (for all future iterations) or by passing a different destination on the command line (push2gs "Q:\ketarin"). There are two good reasons (one is also a caveat) to using this method. 1) it only has to copy new or changed files. robocopy kicks a$$ for this kind of thing, and is very very powerful in this selection mechanism. Nifty stuff. 2) it ensures that the destination is an EXACT copy of the source (mirror = /mir). This is GREAT if you're using your download source as the source for multiple keys and need to be able to quickly get the destination in sync. It's NOT good if you're modifying files or adding stuff to the destination - since that stuff will ALL be overwritten or removed. Be careful.

 

Oh, and I'm not the developer. Just someone helping out and answering questions here on the forum.

[Guest komitaltrade]

Oh, and I'm not the developer. Just someone helping out and answering questions here on the forum.

 

Yeah, but you realy helped me a lot. Thanks.

 

If you place the jobs.db file in the same folder as ketarin.exe, it's truly portable. It does NOT rely on any paths to function. If you use relative paths (".\...") for your save to location, then the entire folder Ketarin resides in can be copied between devices, drives and operating systems without issue. This is how I personally use it, along with a batch file I use to clone the Ketarin folder to a USB stick.

 

Thanks, also, i already figured by myself.

 

As far the install behavior, you CAN get it to install specific applications from the command line, but you have to export the app profiles you want to install to XML first. I haven't personally done this or ever needed to, but it doesn't look that difficult. To generate the XML for only a select few applications you'd open Ketarin, CTRL+click to select multiple entries, then CTRL+C to copy their data as XML. Paste that into Notepad++ (or equivalent), save it to the ketarin folder, copy the Ketarin folder & downloads to your USB stick and then use the following syntax to 'install' them on a different PC:

ketarin.exe /install=myInstallationStuff.xml /exit

 

I will try something else (and than I will explain it).

 

Below you'll find the batch file I use to clone my Ketarin folder to a USB stick (easily modified to push to a network location), "Push2GS.bat":

@ECHO Off
SET TARGET=%1
IF "%TARGET%"=="" SET TARGET=G:\Support
REM IF "%TARGET%"=="" SET TARGET=W:\USB-Key\Support
REM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ECHO Obtaining new and updated files
robocopy "." "%TARGET%" /MIR /BYTES /ETA
SET TARGET=

 

This allows you to clone the Ketarin folder to "G:\Support\" by default, ERASING anything that isn't already in the source folder. You can change the target either directly within the source (for all future iterations) or by passing a different destination on the command line (push2gs "Q:\ketarin"). There are two good reasons (one is also a caveat) to using this method. 1) it only has to copy new or changed files. robocopy kicks a$$ for this kind of thing, and is very very powerful in this selection mechanism. Nifty stuff. 2) it ensures that the destination is an EXACT copy of the source (mirror = /mir). This is GREAT if you're using your download source as the source for multiple keys and need to be able to quickly get the destination in sync. It's NOT good if you're modifying files or adding stuff to the destination - since that stuff will ALL be overwritten or removed. Be careful.

 

Thanks again. I will try it.

 

P.S. Do you know how to execute file after First Logon (so, not Run, RunOnce or SetupComplete.cmd), wit code example?

[Guest komitaltrade]

In meantime, I found very simple way to get offline installers.

 

DROPBOX

 

Simply, upload the file in Public folder, copy Public Link and after download, files can be deleted from Dropbox (it works, when URL is also deleted).

[komitaltrade]

P.S. Do you know how to execute file after First Logon (so, not Run, RunOnce or SetupComplete.cmd), wit code example?

 

Off course, it is Ketarin exe file (I prefer to get it after First Logon automatically and with visible desktop and not with installation background).

[shawn]

P.S. Do you know how to execute file after First Logon (so, not Run, RunOnce or SetupComplete.cmd), wit code example?

 

No, sorry. If you find a way, it would be great if you could share that here.

[komitaltrade]

No, sorry. If you find a way, it would be great if you could share that here.

 

I will find (if Getting Started can do it, any apps can).

 

Just one more question:

 

I have Ketarin ROOT folder and inside Apps folder (i done ".\Apps\{appname:regexreplace:([\s\t\r\n\\&\/]+):_}-{version}.{url:ext}").

 

I will also place the jobs.db file in the same folder as ketarin.exe.

 

- But, how I can trigger TWICE Ketarin

 

1) First time after OOBE with SetupComplete.cmd, to list JUST ANTIVIRUS and/or SECURITY apps (so, ANY OTHER APPS) and

 

2) Second time after First Logon screen, to list all other available apps for final user (additional browsers, etc.)?

 

Yeah, I know the simple solution (two Ketarin folders, in fact, two Ketarin instances - OOBEKetarin and FLKetarin), but is it some other way?

[shawn]

You can use two jobs.db files, or you can use two separate xml files. If you need to prompt for the install list, then you probably ought to use a second jobs.db, so user interaction is allowed.

 

Something else - the source for Ketarin is available, so if you have the time and inclination you can develop additional features such as an installation queue or specific command line options. These would be of great benefit to everyone else, too.

[komitaltrade]

You can use two jobs.db files, ... .

 

That is the solution what I'm looking for, but how it works (rename job.db to job1.db and job2.db, or something else?)? I mean, how same Keterin exe (or it is not same?, different exe names?) can trigger two different job.db files?

 

If you need to prompt for the install list, then you probably ought to use a second jobs.db, so user interaction is allowed.

 

I don't want any user interaction!

[shawn]

I don't want any user interaction!

 

In this case, I'd use two XML files, not multiple jobs.db files. This will let you use the "/install=passN.xml /exit" format to effect multiple types of installs. This doesn't prompt for user input before installing - just executes the installers sequentially based on the installation commands you've assigned.

[komitaltrade]

No, sorry. If you find a way, it would be great if you could share that here.

 

I found several options and soon I will post tutorial (just to make complete check, but for now it works perfect).

[komitaltrade]

In this case, I'd use two XML files, not multiple jobs.db files. This will let you use the "/install=passN.xml /exit" format to effect multiple types of installs. This doesn't prompt for user input before installing - just executes the installers sequentially based on the installation commands you've assigned.

 

Sorry, but I don't get it. Can you please post example of XML?

[komitaltrade]

Sorry, but I don't get it. Can you please post example of XML?

 

Yeah, I forgot.

 

Idea is to get disk with 5 partitions (Recovery, System, WindowsOS, Data and Ketarin).

 

Ketarin (letter Z) partition is hidden (to avoid accidental deletion from final user), size enough for offline apps storage.

 

Tools are Windows 7 Toolkit (to make custom OS iso), OEM Recovery Tools (to make recovery option) and Ketarin.

 

Windows 7 ISO contain just language packs, updates and tweaks (here can be added shortcut of Ketarin instance for final user , in Start menu, desktop, etc.).

 

Installation start with sysprep and on Administrator First Logon via Ketarin (administrator can manually trigger it, but this is the first usage of Ketarin, let to call it Audit Ketarin) should be installed (depend on final user) "prerequisites" (e.g. NET Framework, vcredistr, etc.), OEM Recovery Tools and main (giant) applications (MS Office, Adobe suites, CAD suites, etc., depends of final user), triggered manually by administrator (it is some tricks to not be triggered manually, Ketarin also can handle it, but it is not subject now, I will explain it in tutorial).

 

With OEM Recovery Tools, go back in regular OOBE and here is the second usage of Ketarin (lets to call it OOBE Ketarin), triggered with SetupComplete.cmd (OOBE Ketarin should to contain just options for Antivirus or complete security packages).

 

After OOBE and Antivirus (eventually) reboot, come First Logon and automatic (let to call just) Ketarin trigger (of many options, most simple is via Task Scheduler, but I will explain it in tutorial) with all others possible applications for final user needs and taste.

 

Benefits:

 

1) Fast and simple creation of custom Windows 7 ISO.

 

2) Fast and simple creation of basic (let to call) audit configuration (it is not same for office users, gamers, etc.) and basic recovery Windows image.

 

P.S. After this stage, practically always can exist just upgrades (and they are basic and low time consuming).

 

3) Finally, regards to Ketarin, it is possible to have in already basically configured PC, with different final flavors of the OS, depending of the final user needs and it can be always be done "on the fly" (with OEM Recovery Tools reinstall).

 

P.S. So, in this stage is practically point of easy "dynamic" automatic configuration, without saving that in OS or recovery image.

 

NEEDS

 

So, that's why I ask how to get 3 (2 or 4) different Ketarins, but in the same root folder on Ketarin partition, as I want all applications in the same folder (to be easy changeable apps list "on the fly", for any Ketarin instance/usage).

 

So shawn, please post adequate XML example, it will help me a lot.

[komitaltrade]

NEEDS

 

So, that's why I ask how to get 3 (2 or 4) different Ketarins, but in the same root folder on Ketarin partition, as I want all applications in the same folder (to be easy changeable apps list "on the fly", for any Ketarin instance/usage).

 

So shawn, please post adequate XML example, it will help me a lot.

 

I guess how now is clear how concept wit multiple job or XML files is not the best solution.

 

Ideal will be option (in Settings) to run Ketarin "silently" wit desired popup dialog version (audit, oobe, final user, full list, etc.) for targeted user (where he will be not able to change anything except to choose what application he want to install via checking boxes).

[shawn]

An interactive silent mode isn't currently possible.

 

The current command line options provide a progress bar, but no other interaction.

[komitaltrade]

An interactive silent mode isn't currently possible.

 

The current command line options provide a progress bar, but no other interaction.

 

ActuallyI did not asked that, but perfect. This will solve the rest of the problem (as I promised, everything will be in the guide).

 

So far, three news:

 

1) Offline installers is easy and fast to implement (it will come in the guide).

 

2) I have successfully applied Ketarin also for other purposes (for sort of the PC control, for example).

 

3) Ketarin can be initiated in several phases of the installation (including the first desktop application appereance), and everything will be in a tutorial.