appyface Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have no idea what is going on here... between this and the CIV that was supposedly not blank but seemingly stayed blank until the file dates changed... Something weird is going on and I just don't have enough data in both the Ketarin log and the XML exports, to reconstruct just what's happening. Would you please consider adding a logging option to provide some kind of very detailed 'debug level' sort of logging? I'm going to export this XML, let Ketarin create a blank jobs.db for me, then reimport the XML and just start over from here. You mentioned the logic for the CIV is corrected now so that might be the best thing to do. Is a detailed debug log option possible? ... aarrrrrghgghghghg.... Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floele Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Nope. The only more "verbose" level of debugging is to compile Ketarin with Visual Studio and go through every step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appyface Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 More weirdness. http://ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/Ketarin-1.0.2.zip I just tried using both Ketarin apps (that had been returning different files), plus I just now tried IE, Orbit and Firefox. All of them downloaded this file, here's one of them with attributes: (name, size, modified, created, accessed) Ketarin-1.0.1.197.zip 743,634 2/11/2009 9:39:34 AM 2/20/2009 1:42:02 PM 2/20/2009 1:42:02 PM No referrer (blank) with Ketarin and with Orbit -- I didn't check IE and Firefox but all got same file with same size and modified date. Next I typed the URL directly into a create download dialog in Orbit (instead of clicking on the link, which launches Orbit). This time I got this file downloaded: (name, size, modified, created, accessed) Ketarin-1.0.2.zip 745,634 2/19/2009 7:08:42 AM 2/20/2009 1:45:44 PM 2/20/2009 1:45:44 PM No referrer (it's blank) in Orbit's download dialog for this URL. It seems this inconsistency has nothing to do with Ketarin? But without detailed logging in Ketarin I could not know what is going on, when I get one file downloaded one time, and get a different file downloaded another time. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floele Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I don't know what Orbit downloader sends as HTTP request. You could use some kind of HTTP debugger / traffic watcher to check on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appyface Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Well I was thinking you'd write the debug log yourself, like most people do :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appyface Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 You are right, there IS a referer... [2/20/2009 2:17:38 PM:908] GET /downloads/Ketarin/Ketarin-1.0.2.zip HTTP/1.0 Host: ketarin.canneverbe.com Cookie: __utma=97417733.328018987388848400.1232933618.1232933618.1232933618.1; __utmz=97417733.1232933618.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none) Referer: http://ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/ User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) Accept: */* Pragma: no-cache Cache-Control: no-cache Connection: close [2/20/2009 2:17:39 PM:111] HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:17:42 GMT Server: Apache/2.2.11 (Linux/SUSE) Last-Modified: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:08:41 GMT ETag: "28a4764-b60a2-463489685f840" Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 745634 Connection: close Content-Type: application/zip Here's a screen shot of my setup of the Orbit entry before downloading: Here's a screen shot of Orbit's records after downloading: Beats me where it is getting the referrer from... how can it have a referrer if I don't give it one in the setup? A question for Orbit folk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CybTekSol Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hey Flo, I've been getting the latest versions of Ketarin manually so this issue hasn't affected me but I'm somewhat curious after a cursory overview of this thread... Will Ketarin always download the latest stable version of Ketarin, not the latest beta version, even if it is set to always download beta version as a result of your configuration of the server? Makes me wonder just how effective this setting is with other developer's sites if the have a similar server configuration? OR, are you able to accomplish this due to some specific ability to override the setting through your intimate knowledge of Ketarin's code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floele Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'd only a referrer issue. Wrong referrer = latest version, right referrer = any version. No magic behind that and nothing that Ketarin couldn't work around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appyface Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 @CybTekSol Yes put (http://) ketarin.canneverbe.com/downloads/Ketarin/ as the referrer for Ketarin to get the latest (beta) version when available @Flo I downloaded Ketarin *manually* and carefully!!!! last night the latest beta version of Ketarin, this came down with a zip filename of 1.0.2 and the EXE has this size and last modified date/time: Ketarin.exe 600,576 2/19/2009 5:55:32 PM So I'm on the latest version (I hope). I exported all XML, got Ketarin to create me an empty jobs.db, and reimported all XML. Immediately ran update on all apps and Ketarin re-downloaded the CIV-controlled apps (just as you said it would). So now I'm in a good position (I think) to more forward. The referrer thing was no doubt a factor in Ketarin's downloading behavior of Ketarin app, and the CIV not working properly was probably a factor in Ketarin's downloading at odd times of the BooZet apps. It would really be helpful to have an option for logging everything Ketarin examines, referrer, CIV before and after, URL before and after, etc. If I had that level of information before I started this thread, I might have been able to zero in on this myself, or at least had more specific questions about Ketarin's behavior. If I can see everything Ketarin considers, step-by-step as it processes an app, I should be able to follow along and find out where the trouble is (referrer is different, CIV is blank, source URL before/after are different, etc.) If you don't want to do this now, would you --please please please-- add this level of detail option to the wishlist? Thanks, --appyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appyface Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Dang it Flo you snuck in another version while I was sleeping! 1.0.2.215... LOL I've got that one now and will repeat the above exercise, export my XML, create blank db, reload, run the first update run... and we'll go from there...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floele Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Right now, everything related to updates should already be present in the log. I don't want to spam my source code much further with logging now. If there is something especially useful, I'll do, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appyface Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Completely understood that you don't want to add extra code unless it has value... but I think we're still missing some critical information in the logs. I've got the 1.0.2.215 version, so I'm current (?). I've exported my jobs.db, created an empty jobs.db, and reloaded the XML. I've done my first 'update all' run with the brand-new jobs.db and this version. Using 1.0.2.215, I have to disagree that everything Ketarin considers while processing an app, is being logged. Let's take this example: 2/21/2009 8:21:42 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {skimurl} in '{skimurl}' with 'http://allwaysync.com/download/allwaysync-n-go-9-1-9.exe' 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Checking if update is required... 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Update not required 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {vers} in '{vers}' with '9.1.9' What did Ketarin examine, to decide that the update is not required? The log does not give me this information. I save these logs, and export the XML, for future comparison of app behavior. But that is still not enough, not everthing considered is in the XML file either. Taking the above example, the logging could look like this: 2/21/2009 8:21:42 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {skimurl} in '{skimurl}' with 'http://allwaysync.com/download/allwaysync-n-go-9-1-9.exe' 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Checking if update is required... 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: No referrer specified 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: No change indicator variable specified 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Source URL served http://allwaysync.com/download/allwaysync-n-go-9-1-9.exe 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Server file modified: prior xx/xx/xxxx xx:xx:xx xx current xx/xx/xxxx xx:xx:xx xx 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Server file size: prior xxxxxx current xxxxxx 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Server filename: prior xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx current xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (resolve any variables for target disk filename) 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Target disk filename xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2/21/2009 8:xx:xx AM: Allway Sync to go version: Target disk filename exists 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Update not required 2/21/2009 8:21:43 AM: Allway Sync to go version: Replacing {vers} in '{vers}' with '9.1.9' The above example is incomplete/inaccurate, I did not show the global variables if referenced, the before/after commands executed, etc. that Ketarin is logging. But I hope this simplistic log revision serves to illustrate the concept: To log everything Ketarin examined, everything that changed value during the run, everything Ketarin executed -- in short, everything that Ketarin took into account, or did, as part of processing this app. Please please please consider adding this detail (it can be an option not normal logging, if you like)? At least please put this on the official wishlist for me? Anything less logged and I'm still having to guess or assume based on my current understanding of what *I think* Ketarin is doing... and that can be wrong... TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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